Canadian Consumers: Legal weed or BM?

[Somatek]

For those who buy bud as well as grow their own, where are you shopping?  Has the legal market won you over or are you still a loyal underground custy?

I haven’t bought any bud from the BM since 2018 when I got my med license.  Since then I’ve picked up legal bud a couple times, most recently to see if Black Cherry Punch was worth paying the stupid high price Mother Labs is asking for it.  Most legal bud I find is still limited by the over reliance of irradiation to meet the regulations but it means the bud all kinds of tastes the same.  Ghost Drop is the only product I’ve enjoyed out of: edison, flowr, bold, spiritleaf, tantalus labs or broken coast which all taste like old bud to me.  Paying $10 for a 1/2g spliff had me feeling like a teen again but at least Z-Splitter from Ghost Drop had a nice orange citrus taste that lasted until the last puff with a nice, stimulating buzz.

Although compared to a 1/2lbs on the black market for $350 retail, it’d be hard to justify if I was actually buying daily smoke instead of having cheaper/cleaner/better home grown to enjoy.  Which is still king in my mind, neither the legal or illegal market can compete with decent home grown yet but with the prices plummeting the day may come sooner then later.

What’s everyone else’s opinion?

[NeuroticTurtle]

I dunno, I live in the boonies so the legal producers are a decent alternative.  Its never fresh enough, but its never moldy or rotten either.  Oh and its never tampered with either…   The local craft growers still charge 200/zip for AAA-.  I’ll choke down some LP trash at 125/zip all day before I go back to the BM… here.

[Somatek]

That’s the thing, BM prices are all over and people who really harp about how it’s “the best quality and price” are generally from urban areas where you can get an ounce of decent bud for $60, AAA for 90-110 with good terps.  It’s a privileged perspective that ignores the reality of the pesticides and false marketing common in the illegal market.

I saw these stats in an email about the cannabis act review that were pretty telling about the legal market:

• 10 standard license holders account for 43% of all dried cannabis production in Canada between October 2019 and December 2021. Another 56% came from 307 standard license holders. Approximately 178 micro licensees accounted for less than 1% of all cannabis production in the country.
• 10 companies account for 66% of all legal sales, while another 200 accounted for one-third of all sales between October 2019 and December 2021, with micro license holders accounting for 0.3% for all sales in the period.
  Micro license holders account for 38% of all federal licensees. A number that has grown from 20 at the start of 2020 to 340 as of July 31, 2022.
• Since legalization less than 10% (approximately 95 cannabis license holders) exited the industry.
• The data shows a notable decline of unlicensed brick and mortar stores operating in Canada, however there was an increase of illicit operations in Indigenous communities.

   

It makes it pretty clear that the mega LP’s the corps run are failing abysmally when you consider the almost million pounds of bud that were destroyed this year when only 10 producers are responsible for 43% of the overall production.

They also had a really interesting way of skewing the stats, like showing what percent micro LP’s have sold in the national market  over 2 years when the amount of micro licenses have increase 17 times over the last year.  Which clearly shows how the exodus from the BM to legal by craft growers has become a flood as prices bottom out and they’re better off in the legal market instead.  Especially when brokers are selling their 1/8ths for $50 lol.  Which really drives home that the players left in the BM are mostly large operations and definitely not the “mom and pop” image people push to support the BM.

[Nate]

Every now and again I’ll head to the NSLC for a sativa if I’m craving some variety. Once I’ve grown enough variety I doubt I’ll buy it from the liquor store much, if ever. If I wasn’t growing I’d probably be still going to the LC, but I agree it’s mostly dried out tasteless bud. The only thing I would rather go buy would maybe be a vape cart, but I found those to be really hit or miss.

[Somatek]

I really don’t trust much of the BM concentrate market, other then rosin products but that’s why I bought a press; to be economically minded lol.

The only reason I’ve really gone looking for legal bud was to see what Black Cherry Punch was like and if was worth buying a clone, which I’m still on the fence about quite honestly…  Compared to 4 years ago there’s a lot more variety at much better prices, I’m sure that trend will continue and until then I’m happy to grow my own.

[Nate]

Yeah I don’t really trust the purity of the BM concentrates either, I was talking about getting legal carts. Lately I’ve been craving the blond hash we used to get in high school, and I was thinking I might see if I can find something similar at the LC. I haven’t really tried much of the concentrates at the LC, but I also don’t do dabs, so rosin and shatter and the like aren’t really anything I’d immediately reach for.

[Somatek]

I’ve seen rosin/live rosin carts, or did you specifically mean raw rosin/shatter not in a cart?  That line at the end confused me for a second lol

I assumed you were talking about legal vape carts based on the context, sorry if my reply seemed a bit out of context as I was distracted thinking about the next things to test while squishing the bud the neighbour dropped off.  I probably should have started with something like “I fully agree, buying carts from legal suppliers is just logical when you look at what the black market does to produce them”.  It’s only polite to be as least confusing as possible…

[Nate]

Yeah I read it as you thinking I was talking about BM vapes. It’s all good though, I was pretty stoned so I may have just misinterpreted it because of that lol. And yeah, the last line I think I just went on a tangent of never having bought any concentrates other than vape carts.

[Somatek]

Equally my fault as there’s a good chance I was stoned as I usually reply to posts after toking lol.  It’s kinda a common thing on pot forums which is why I always keep in mind miscommunication is always two sided.  No need to explain the tangent as it fully made sense to me, how people use and especially how they grow is purely personal and no point getting invested in.  I’ve had friends become fanatics pushing various things like shatter or rosin when it first came out.  Being absolute dicks and talking down to people who didn’t agree because “they were just ignorant” or “didn’t have taste/class/etc”.  Which is ridiculous, like I’ve said before people understand with alcohol their is no “best”, just personal preference.  Some people like craft beer, others like Bud, some like wine, other vodka.  Pots no different, I mostly smoke flower even though I love making concentrates and processing bud.  I didn’t take any offence at your comment, especially as I have no clue what your local market is like.  That’d be truly assinine lol

[Nate]

Yeah text posts can be especially easy to misunderstand as there’s no non verbal cues to go off of. I agree that there’s no “right” way to consume cannabis. Although I’ve never actually consumed any rosin or shatter as I’ve never done a dab lol. Back when I was a heavy smoker, dab’s weren’t really popular, at least not around here. Now that I can’t smoke as much without getting anxious, I feel like a dab would end my life lol. I feel like I would enjoy the process of pressing for rosin though. I feel like its a combination of cooking and mechanical which is completely in my wheelhouse.

[Somatek]

CBD rosin is a thing, all the taste and joy, none of the high or anxiety.  My Highlo mom for example has no real discernible “high” but has a lovely tart, fruity/cherry taste that I’m highly looking forward to dabbing.  It’s just another tool to process the many varieties for varied effects.

You’re absolutely right, pressing rosin and cooking are very much the same as there’s the science behind it and then the art of practicing it.  You don’t necessarily need to know the science but it changes the experience the more you do.  Which is one area I still have a lot to learn.

[Nate]

I’ve never thought about that, but yeah of course there’s CBD rosin lol. I’ve been considering growing some CBD flower at some point. How do you find the breeder’s percentages of THC compare to what the plants produce as far as consistency? My wife can’t have any THC without extreme anxiety these days, so we had been buying it at the LC, but she can’t have anything except for a very high CBD:THC ratio (like 20:1). I personally like the buzz of a 1:1 or a 2:1, but I wouldn’t want to go through the effort of growing out a plant for her to realize she can’t even smoke it.

[Somatek]

I don’t get my bud tested so I can’t say how reliable any breeders listed ratings are.  My gut feeling is there more of a guess as the genes would determine the CBD:THC ratio.  That said I bought Highlo as it specifically said that the majority of seeds grown/tested can in over 10:1 and as high as 20:1.  You might also consider Cannatonic from Resin Seeds which regularly tests at 20:1.

Any plants grown would need to be tested (either in a lab or personally) to see what their effects would be though.

[Nate]

Okay good to know. I may just grow one out and be a guinea pig for the wife lol. Worse comes to worse, I’d have something with some thc for when I don’t wanna get wrecked. I feel like that’s something I might convince my friend who wants to open the nursery to keep in stock once he gets going. If he was able to get a mother that tested at a really high ratio, I feel like clones of that would be in demand.

[Somatek]

The nursery space is one area where I think there’s a lot of potential to create a profitable business.  No one in the legal market is looking at how to connect with home growers or people still shopping on the BM, which is basically half the customers.

Offering quality, unique clones that have been tested and are pathogen free (hemp latent viroid is a growing issues) at reasonable prices instead of $400/clone is a low cost and potentially high return investment considering how cheaply you could build a vertical micro nursery to keep costs/overhead low.

Good luck in your search for that Holy Grail variety to make you lady happy.

[Nate]

Yeah I think it’s definitely an untapped market. I’m not 100%, but I think he said he was planning on selling clones for under $100, so I’m sure he’d have a pretty good customer base here.

[Somatek]

In a mature market I expect clones to go for anywhere from $5-10 regardless of what they are, similar to most nursery plants as making clones is dead easy and low cost.  At this point as home growers are only about 10% of users though it’s a niche market so paying $30-50 on average with “elites” going for anywhere from $100-250 plus is normalized and seen as good value.

[Nate]

Hopefully that is where it settles. I wonder what the ethics of selling an elite clone would be though. Like would you have to have the breeder’s permission to be a redistributor? Would they see it as undercutting their profits?

[Somatek]

The reality is that no cannabis seeds, clones or breeders would be recognized as having a legally definied cultivar and there are no rights at this point what so ever.  To be defined legally as a cultivar they have to be shown to be consistent for the traits which make them unique from other cultivars; no pot seeds are even close and the ethics in the seed biz are minimal.

It’s seen as ethical to reference the original breeder if you’re using their genes but the web is also full of rumours and accusations of people ripping of each others work as well as documented cases like Barney’s Farms starting to sell Sweet Tooth which was Breeder Steve/Spice of Life’s work that they sell knock offs of.  If breeders are taking advantage of the legality to start breeding consistent, unique cultivars then they’ll be able to apply for a patent like any other legal breeder with gives them exclusive rights to distribute that cultivar for 10 or 15 years.  Until they do the work to the same level as professional breeders they won’t have rights, just like most home breeders/pollen chuckers.

The black market definitely sees everything in the legal market as undercutting their profits which are based on inflated prices due to the illegal nature of it.  For consumers the question is does it make sense to pay inflated prices just because that’s what illegal producers are use to?

[Nate]

I kind of figured there’d be no legislation to protect the rights of the breeders, although I suppose I was being a bit charitable assuming that there’d be a general consensus on the ethics of the industry.

As far as consumers paying the inflated prices, I don’t think people will be willing to pay sky high prices forever. But I do think that the government should change their tax/distribution models so that the producers can actually offer the product at a reasonable price relative to what it costs to produce it. I’m hoping that we can get some form of farmgate distribution Canada wide in order to cut out the middle man. Or at least some form of direct delivery from the LP.

[Somatek]

There’s legislation to protect breeders but cannabis breeders don’t meet the standards as their seed is considering unstable, heterozygous and unable to prove their work is significantly different from anyone elses.  Which is why companies can make copies of others work, why there’s a million offerings of the same varieties and a lot of variation requiring pheno hunting to find great plants.

I see prices as two separate issues; prices will keep falling as more free market pressure is exerted but also recognize that the gov regulations like over taxation or unrealistic standards enable the black market by limiting legal producers.  If we had sensible regulations that didn’t force producers to irradiate, then the competition would be a lot stronger between the legal and illegal market.  Which would drive prices down quicker and speed up the transition of “legacy” growers into the legal market while destroying any incentive for organized crime to grow as it simply wouldn’t be affordable.  Especially if the gov enacted regulations to control how canna clinics operate with fixed rates for grow licenses regardless of prescription size.  That would kill the ‘script mills making bank by selling big licenses for illegal growers (i.e. the 100g+/day for 1-2k).  Which is why I tell people when asked what’s the best source I tell them to grow their own as the cost/quality is the best and accessibility is a lot higher now with all the companies like Spider Farm making great product and affordable prices, not to mention forums like this.

[Keith]

You foreign people and your cannabis choices, sheesh.   I’m green with envy.  I get the desire to want to try different strains too.  At first I was thinking why would you ever buy any of you could grow, but the amount of choices out there would have me sampling.  I’d end up having to give myself a weed allowance for the week.  Great times in Canada

[Somatek]

Yes and no, a lot of the legal weed isn’t as good as a beginners because of the regulations.  The gov basically considers it like any other food crop and set an incredibly low bar for biological contamination that makes irradiating the crops the standard process, despite the LP’s own research that shows it destroys 20-30% of the monoterpenes.  So a lot of the bud ends up having a generic taste, my year old outdoor still has more flavour then most legal weed.  Although there are more micro producers coming from the black market now that the prices have pretty much equalized, according to the stats above it’s jumped from 20 to 340 in the last year.  Those are who are selling to brokers like Blck Mrkt or Ghost Drops, which use to be an illegal distributor themselves.  Berner has his own shops now carrying on his brand, Cookies, which kind destroys the argument it’s only corporate sluts in the legal market now that the creator of GSC has entered it.

Don’t get me wrong, they are great times as it’s night and day to living/growing under prohibition as cops will actively tell you know they don’t care about pot and don’t want to waste their time.  The legal market has a long way to go though and will struggle to produce quality until the gov makes logical regulations that reflect the actual risks and not hysteria.

[Keith]

I always wondered if terpenes get added to pot after the harvesting and drying? For bag appeal.  I used to get pot that was supposed to be from dispensaries that smelled super strong when you opened the bag but never tasted like what it smelled like.

[Somatek]

Short answer is yes…  Even back in the 90’s slinging dime bags we quickly learned that old, over dried, low taste bud could be improved by rehydrating it with orange, lemon, banana or apple peels to affect the taste or a slice of white bread if we didn’t want to change the taste.

I’ve never heard of people adding terps to buds but I know cart makers often do to create the impression of quality, although if poorly done it’s clearly noticeable.

Cannadian regulations prohibit that though I believe, I haven’t actually kept up with the changes since reading the Cannabis Act when it was first past.  Yes I’m that nerdy that I read our regulations and court decisions around pot, I’m currently excitedly waiting to read the Quebec Supreme Court decision about the ban on home growing in that province.  The lower courts over turned it, the superior court ruled they were wrong and the province had the right to restrict it; now to see what the Quebec Supreme court decides and whether it will be appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada and whether the feds will finally take a stand on it…

[Keith]

So you’ve got the rules about how much a person can grow and what not but how does the gov monitor how much people are actually growing?  I would think maybe a really high electric bill would put up red flags.  Can they come and inspect your set up when they wish?

[Nate]

I can’t say for sure because I’ve never dealt with it, but I haven’t heard of any major crackdowns, with the exception of a lady in BC that got charged because she had her plants in plain view (certain provinces have placed restrictions on how you’re allowed to grow in public). Here’s the article. So aside from people seeing it and complaining, I don’t think there’s much in the way of enforcement as far as plant count. I would think you’d have to have a major grow going on the draw any sort of response from the police.

[Somatek]

There are rules about how many plants you can grow and like Nate said each province set their own rules like not being allowed to have plants in public view or limits on how much you can have at your house like in BC, to outright bans on rec growing like in Manitoba or Quebec, to minimal like Ontario.

Enforcement is basically non existent unless someone complains and you’re clearly violating the rules.  Things like a high electricity bill wouldn’t necessarily matter as you could be growing each plant under it’s own 1000w light and still be legal if you’re within the plant count. Which is the hypocrisy of the regulations, they gov says they want to crackdown on illegal diversion but haven’t done anything to actually address the loopholes which are being exploited.

[Author]

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