Concentrates and you!

[NeuroticTurtle]

Hi folks, what’s your favorite flavor of concentrate?

Personal favorite is high temp rosin from fresh nug runs from THCV bearing cultivars.  I’m talking spew and sputter out the paper from the low temp squish and pure translucent gold on the second press.

Second favorite is the classic quick blast butane honey oil out of a homemade copper pipe extractor, but finding clean butane is just as much a gamble now as it was in 1990s’/2000’s, and I hate wasting a whole can per case just to do a mirror test, especially if it ever came back with a smear.  Of course these days finding technical or scientific grade butane is easier but I stopped playing with butane at home years ago.

Alternatives to this include the ancient quick wash isopropyl extractions, ethanol extractions and then fat extractions.  Do you make ganjabutter? do you utilize MCT-oil or raw coconut oil?

How many of you own a soxhlet extractor and do steam distillation under controlled and safe conditions.

Closed loop butane? Closed loop CO2? Are ya from over there, where they blend it raw and make bhang?

How about icewater or co2 hash extractions? Dry sift? kief box.  Do ya run a hair straightener on high wrapped in elastics or have a press and plates?

 

do ya sidechains hang low, do they wobble to and fro?  2018 farm bill got you growin outdoor Italian Cannabis FM2 (somehow) and you’re extracting THCp, or one of the other alts?   How many carbons do you enjoy, something from the varin fam, the phorols?  Or are you after something standard pathway but exotic like delta-11-hydroxy-thc, the metabolite that comes from digesting massive quantities of edibles?

Sound off!

 

do ya (side)chains hang low, do they wobble to and fro?

 

 

 

 

[Somatek]

Had to give the thumbs up for the quality post, replying was obligatory after listening to that track lol…

I’m a pretty simple stoner, rosin, dry sieve and bubble hash are my preferences for concentrates. Low and slow for pressing rosin for max terps, the left over pucks are donated to ambitious friends willing to make edibles as they don’t generally affect me much although occasionally I’ll make some infused coconut oil to have on hand for cooking or topical applications. Bhang is also fun to make for special occasions when a bit of ceremony is called for to elevate the high state or revelry.

Never really played with butane although we use to make lots of isopropyl oil and push it through carbon filters to get a nice golden honey-looking oil instead of the greenish/black standard. These days I prefer processes that won’t blow me up when I screw up lol. Although I respect the game and players who know how to work that magic, just not my lane.

Equally I’ve never really dug into the chemistry end of things, there’s just too much to learn and too little time to cram it all into one brain in one life. Although I tried some chemotype IV (high CBG) flower yesterday from the legal market which was interesting. Definitely felt more alert and stimulated after toking it later in the afternoon, I’m curious to try vaping some next to get a better idea of how it affects the standard THC buzz.

[Brad104]

I enjoyed vaping during my work hours, really before everyone now knows if you are vaping something it’s weed.It was very discreet and didn’t smell as bad as raw bud in the cab of a dozer.Ive helped build a many interstate roads through north Carolina and south Carolina and the buzz from the the vape pen was intense to me as well so I enjoy the vape pens.

[Atom]

I like em all, but if i had to pick one it would definitely be rosin. Can’t beat the flavors and the fact that it’s solventless. Dint have to worry about nasty chems. Altho i do enjoy a good live resin and live resin carts. Light Sky Farms have amazing products and there gorilla puff is top 3 best cart I’ve ever had. That comes at a cost of 30$ for half grams. Very expensive but I can’t do distalite any more. Hurts my lungs and it’s to hit and miss. After I started learning about distalite I was definitely turned off. It’s basically anything they cannot sell, floor scraping, mildew and mold. I understand it gets cleaned out but I don’t like the idea that there selling me a polished turd. House of dank has 12 platinum vape carts right now for 100$. How the hell can they even make money off that? They gotta be making 55 gallon barrels of this stuff

[Somatek]

I always think of the solvent extractors motto when looking at most product, “mold to gold” is something more people need to realize.  Like you said it can be filtered and purified but far too many producers are using CEC without a fine enough micron filter to separate the silicon out of the end product.  Which is definitely a health risk a lot of people aren’t aware about as they don’t understand the industry.

Which again, despite the many problems with the industry/regulations overall I’m happy with legalization here in the frozen north.  Slowly more producers are shifting over and the quality improves, just sucks the prices are so high because of over taxation.  Apparently the cash grab is more important to the Canadian gov then wiping the black market out lol

[Atom]

You know it’s funny you mentioned “mold to gold” lol. I’ve read this moto in the book hashish a long time ago. An old timer grower I know lent it to me and Kickstart my interest in hash. Saudi sams mold to gold I believe it was. If I remember correctly he was basically making it in glass jars with no bags or nothing. Just let if settle in the bottom of like a Mason jar. How far it’s came since then lol. You are very wise in the ways of the weed somatek and I’m glad I’ve met you bro. I look forward to many interesting conversations and I know you got some knowledge I have yet to learn. 🤘

[Somatek]

Hashish by R.C. Clarke?  I don’t remember that line from it as it use to be one of my favourite books to read.  I’ve owned 3 or 4 copies now, keep lending them out never to be seen again… I’ve always wanted to pick up Cherniak’s hashish series as well…

I do remember where it describes making water hash in Hashish (along with that great pic of the fish bowl over the dudes head filled with hash smoke lol) and using cold water to separate the trichs out of ground up bud but we’re either talking about different books or that line completely slipped my mind in the decade since I’ve read it lol.

Whether I’m wise or obsessive compulsive about pot is purely perspective as I’m sure a lot of prohibitionists would see me as the ultimate example of pot addiction.  Then again the root of addict means “devoted to” so I’m ok with that as I’m definitely a devotee of Dope lol.

[Atom]

I can’t remember the name of the writer but I vividly remember the suadi Sam hash technique ” turn mold into gold”.It was a very interesting book, not just about making it but alot of the history. I didn’t retain it all and thinking about it, I now want to read it again.

[Atom]

Yes that’s the author, I just went to look it up.. there a 2nd edition and it’s 500$ wow. I’m going to talk to the guy I borrowed the book from and see if he will let me borrow it again. I could use some refreshing of the information.

 

[Somatek]

It is a great book, R.C. Clarke is an inspiring level of in depth knowledge about pot.  Marijuana Botany is old but a classic book, I believe it was his master thesis or something like that.  Hashish! is the tome of all things hash from the historical cultural context to what was the modern context.  Cannabis: Evolution and Ethnobotany takes it to another level.  Him an Dr. Ernst Smalls are too highly under rated and under appreciated pot authors in my opinion.

Hope you manage to borrow a copy to peruse and be sure to share the mold to gold quote when you find it to refresh my hazy memories.  It’s one of those books that I always look for in used bookstores as you can find them for a steal occasionally.

[Keith]

That’s pretty interesting.  We don’t have that where I live.  Carts used to go around where I live about 4-5 years ago. They were everywhere.  But there was some info going around that they were bad for you.  I never got the details I never really smoked them.  I bet it was the distillate.  But after that they just dropped off and disappeared.  I’ve moved and am out of that scene now so I don’t know if they’ve come back around or not.  I didn’t know they made live resin carts.

[Atom]

It was from vitamin e acetate. It’s a cutting agent basically that is very common in beauty products. It’s pretty much harmless unless you vape it. It was in some legal carts but mostly BM carts here. It was killing people, I wouldn’t be surprised if I had some. I smoke a .5gram every week or two and feel like if i did get any I didn’t smoke much of it. There pretty safe now if you get from dispensary, I would never buy them from BM I don’t care how cheap they are.

[Somatek]

Vitamin E acetate causing “popcorn” lung is/was a big issues, CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome) is another risk associated with excessive use of high THC concentrates like shatter/rosin/distillate that has is most likely linked to an imbalance in the endocannabinoid system creating issues with the TRVP1 receptors in our intestines causing cyclical vomiting.  There’s a theory pushed by some growers that it’s caused by neem oil poisoning but that has been roundly dismissed by science/doctors as only one symptom matches and it ignores too many facts that contradict the anecdotal experiences the idea is based on.

[NeuroticTurtle]

thc-o acetate in cheap carts can cause vomiting too, and that’s fairly common because of the cheap and easy pathing from hemp derived cbd->d8-thc->thc-o.

I’ve only ever heard of maybe three legit cases of CHS, requiring hospitalization, in BC.  That number was from the earliest legalization days, so it may have shifted significantly since the pot shops all opened up.

[Somatek]

CHS is a very rare condition that only affects a small percentage, the correlation to much higher rates in states which have legalised and seen a proliferation of cheap concentrates drives the theory that’s it’s related to an excess of cannabinoids affecting the TRVP1 receptors, which also react to heat which explains why people find relief from topical capsaicin oil or hot showers.  It’s still a theory and unproven, correlations only go so far which is why it’s important for quality info being shared about it so people can make informed choices.

I hadn’t heard about THC-0 acetate causing vomiting, although there’s recorded cases of CHS being caused by marinol (or another synthetic THC) which rules out it being caused by toxicity from contamination as a probable cause. Like the idea it’s caused by neem poisoning which doesn’t make sense but was really popular for awhile and are still pushed actively by some people.

I can look up some of the papers I’ve read if people are interested in reading it for themselves instead of hearing it second hand.

[Atom]

I’ve heard that certain sprays are fine for smoking but when there vaped at high temps it can actually convert some into cyanide. I can’t remember exactly which. I’m going to try and find the article

[Somatek]

You are probably talking about mycobutanil, a common pesticide used to prevent PM that’s systemic but produces hydrogen cyanide when burned.  There was a court case by patients against an LP, ironically called Organigram lol, who was caught using it illegally.  I can’t remember if it was the same one that got caught hiding it from health inspectors, the early days of LP’s were savage/cut throat times lol.

[Keith]

BM was all I could get, lol.  That sucks.

[Somatek]

There are plenty of ethical, solid people in the BM.  I grew for a decade and sold my crops for less then market value as I was selling to compassion clubs/patients and it’d be sadistic to charge them 3-4k/lbs when I had a comfortable life on half that.  The people I knew, worked with, dealt with were all the same; motivated by passion more then profit. Legal is better as it’s easier to know who you are supporting but just because it’s from the BM doesn’t inherently means it’s unethical, sadly it’s just hard to know who you’re supporting or their values under prohibition…

[Atom]

Live resin and rosin carts are where it’s at. They capture more of the plant essence but at a price of 3 or 4x that of distalite. Although I’ve had some ok distalite, I’d rather smoke vape nothing if its not atleast live resin. Lungs always hurt from distalite

[Keith]

They used to make my lungs hurt too the times I smoked them.  Dabs would too though.  I’m still trying to figure out the terminology.  What I always called dabs I think is rosin.  Which would be dried flower pressed with heat. And live rosin is a not dried bud pressed, right?

[Atom]

Dabs is just a lose term for anything you can vape in your rig.

Yes sir rosin is a solventless extract, resins are created using hydrocarbons. Pretty dangerous for hobby growers like myself.

Live rosin is basically the creme de la creme. You first have to freeze the buds still wet, then wash and filter it. Once dry you press similar to flower but more delicate. The result is the most precious thing you’ll ever smoke.

[Keith]

Lol that’s fucking great.  Another thing on the list of things to try.

[Somatek]

Dabs are just a way of consuming concentrates but can be rosin, shatter or any other variation (wax, budder, jam, etc).  Rosin usually refers to squished bud as people usually specify hash rosin (obviously squished from some type of hash whether its’ dry sieved or bubble hash) or live rosin which is made by freezing freshly harvest plants right away, then processing the frozen plants into bubble hash and then pressing that hash into rosin.  Professionals use freeze dryers to dry their bubble hash to preserve the terps by drying it though sublimation of the water (where a solid turns directly into a gas) which happens when the temps get low enough.

Live resin is similar but uses a solvent to extract the cannabinoids; so plants are frozen at harvest and then processed directly from a frozen state to preserve as many of the terps as best as possible.  Solvents become questionable if not regulated as producers can do things, like CRC (which I forget what it stands for at the moment lol) to improve the colour/quality but can cause the product to be contaminated with silica if a find enough micron screen isn’t used to filter it.

I personally only buy solventless extracts like rosin, bubble or dry sieved hash as it’s pretty obvious when they’ve been tampered with by usual means and the quality of the product directly reflects the quality of the flower grown.

[Atom]

O I wish I had a freeze dryer. Hopefully in the future there will be a company who produces tiny ones for hobby grows.

I’ve also read an article about freeze drying buds. It’s supposed to have the same effects as freeze drying hash (terp preservation, speed of drying, color) but it’s also supposed to keep the buds the same size as they were when there harvested. I’m very curious to try some but its never an option at the shops. It’s either just marketing,  or just not popular.

If anyone has tried freeze dried bud I’d love to hear about it.

[Somatek]

Give me some time and I can share my adventures of making a freeze dryer using the bubble hash machine as a base.  I just need a vacuum chamber, an external chamber for holding the bud/hash, dry ice and alcohol and a pump to create the vacuum.

Cryo Curing is using sublimation to dry buds quickly (24-48 hours) while preserving the terps as much as possible.  It takes a lot of energy compared to other drying tech which is why it isn’t popular.  The result is spectacular though, it’s incredible how pungent good weed is when dried this way.

My end goal with the bubble machine/freeze dryer DiY is to be able to harvest, trim and dry a crop in 24-48 hours, then switch the system to make bubble hash out of the trim/larfy buds the next day, switching it back to the freeze dryer configuration to dry the hash in another day or less to be pressed into rosin.  If I could fully harvest, trim and process a crop in 3-4 days while essentially making live rosin in the process I’ll be a happy camper.  I’ve spent around $175 so far on the project, I think I can make a freeze dryer conversion for around $300 or so which would be awesome if the whole project came in at under $500 (canadian of course, not real money) as that’s within an affordable price range for most home growers compared to the thousands a freeze dryer normally costs.

[Atom]

The module I looked at is about 2400 without an oil free pump. Add another 1500 for oil free. Way out of my price range. Someday hopefully 🙏

[Somatek]

That’s the rub, it’s hard for most home growers to justify those kinds of costs which is where I hope my DiY design opens up the possibility by making it affordable with a bit of elbow grease.

[Atom]

I’ll definitely be interested to see how it pans out for ya. It’s obvious your a very smart person and I don’t forsee you not being able to make it happen.

[Somatek]

The DiY guides for making a freeze dryer is pretty close to my design already, which is what inspired me to make it convertible.  Time and money is the problem, you either have one or the other but rarely both at once…

[Atom]

When it becomes federally legal, it will open the gates for more companies to develop cheaper equipment for hobby growers, at least I hope so. I’ll very likely be doing this for the rest of my life, I could see dropping mabie 1000 on a freeze dryer if it’s gana hold up. Considering the oil less pump is 1500 there’s gana need some serious demand or redesign of them to bring cost down. Although they do already have a smaller version than the last time I looked. Spending 4k on freeze dryer I’ll use 3 or 4 times a year isn’t a good decision.

[Somatek]

Nope, the issue is partly that no one is designing for the hobby grower though, unless it’s things like the bubble machines which are just co-opting and rebranding something that’ll “work” even if it’s horribly designed for the job.

Legalization will change a lot, the question is will prices drop so much that it’s not worth growing for most people?

[Keith]

My god that was a good post. I have pressed before, with a nug smasher, but it’s been years. I don’t have an excess of anything yet. Being weed or money or time to do it, but reading that got me pretty excited about giving it a try again soon. It’s crazy to think about all the different options for extracting. When i start I’ll prob go pretty simple and just press it. I remember we enjoyed lower temp presses.
And yeah it was more golden. This will be a good thread to read through as it builds.

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