Calling all Canucks!

[Somatek]

I figured a more localised thread about growing in Canada for all you lovely people in the Great Frozen North to discuss products, suppliers, laws and such.  So let’s do a roll call, who all is Canadian, where are ya from (obviously only if comfortable sharing) and what’s your favourite variety?

I’ll start as I’d be a prick otherwise.  I’m a proud Canadian mongrel with French, Dutch/German and Indigenous heritage although to be clear I don’t identify as Native as my great Grandmother denied she was Inuit which we assume is a result of her experiences at the residential schools, so I was raised in purely Caucasian culture.  I live in Hamilton, the armpit (or asshole depending on perspective) of Ontario, although my dirty secret is I personally find it an interesting city of incredible diversity that’s in a huge transition which makes it an interesting place to live with lots of potential.  It’s hard to choose a single “favourite” variety but I’m gonna go with Jean Guy, an original Canadian cultivar created/found (I can’t remember which after all these years) by Trichome Pharmer back in the cannabisworld.com days from white label white widow seed and was the first cannabis bud pic used in advertising in the NYT’s.  Although it’s more well known and loved for it’s medical value as the original cut has a lovely stimulating/creative effect without being too sedative while still managing pain well; the ideal for a lot of patients who smoke all day but need to also get things down.  It got predominantly citrus aroma’s with the taste coming through strongly.

My other, personal agenda with starting a thread for Canadians was the fact the gov is reviewing the pot laws and whether home growers pose a danger or significantly increase diversion to the black market/kids.  Here’s my comment from another post copy/pasted as I need to save time so I can reply to more posts instead of waxing on poetically about politics.

“I’ve been telling all the Canadian growers to write to their MP’s as our dope laws are being reviewed to voice their opinion that home growing laws should be based on relevant factors to yield like canopy space in flower (just like micro LP licenses) and not plant numbers which have no relevance to yield what so ever and just enables the black market.  That way people can grow more efficiently in a SoG if they want but more importantly wouldn’t be restricted in how many moms they can collect, which again has no relevance to yield but does infringe on our right to enjoy our hobby.”

If there’s interest I’m happy to elaborate, if anyone has any info about the review please share and obviously any opinion about it all is greatly appreciated.  I fully support legalization and the legal market while also realizing the illogical regulations based on outdated, biased stigmas holds it back, prevents growers from transitioning into it and ultimately enable the black market.

For anyone that’s gotten this far you deserve a prize, if you haven’t already check out the grove bag Canadian site which is offering free samples at the moment! Does anyone have any experience/opinions about them?  I got my 1/2oz sample bag the other day (kinda small to be honest, not meant for a 1/2 zip of fluffy, long flowering, low yielding varieties lol) and will be interested to try it.  My initial impression is that they seem gimmicky and unnecessary for non-commercial home growers but maybe they are the bees knees…

[Nate]

First off, thanks for the free grove bag top, I’ve been wanting to give them a try.

I’m from Nova Scotia, and for a while my favorite strain was tangerine dream (I’ve never grown it, but I had been buying it from snap Raphael), but the last batch I had wasn’t really doing it for me. I’m more of a lower THC kind of guy, as I find the really strong stuff makes me anxious these days if I smoke more than a puff or two. I’ve been really enjoying the purple Kush that I grew earlier this year though.

I agree that the plant count limit really cuts down on how you can organise your grow, and definitely limits the option of moms etc.

As far as heritage is concerned, I’m a 50/50 split between Scottish and Chinese, and I was born in Yellowknife, although I don’t remember living there as I moved when I was 1.

[Somatek]

Lol, I didn’t specifically mean for people to feel obligated to share the heritage, although it’s another way to get to know people if they’re so inclined to share.  I’ve always wanted to visit the far North but sadly New Liskeard in Northern Ontario is as far as I made it when I spent a summer living off grid.

I grew Tangerine Dream for awhile but eventually cut it for a clone from THCbiomed that was called orange creamsicle or something like that which had the same light, sweet citrus taste with a nice stimulating buzz.  I personally agree that I generally prefer moderate THC varieties, I have some that are stronger/more sedative but generally prefer pot that’s more stimulating.

[Nate]

Yeah no worries man, I just figured I’d mention it, and I wanted to say that I was born up north because you mentioned having Inuit heritage. But yeah, I’d like to go back up north at some point, but I just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

I definitely like a flavourful weed that doesn’t knock me out or give me anxiety lol. The next time I start looking for new strains to try, that’s probably the way I’ll lean. So far I’ve only ever grown cultivars that were given to me, so it’s just been whats on hand.

[Somatek]

As a heavy daily smoker having diverse, interesting flavours is equally important as potency.  Who wants to taste gnarly flavours every time they medicate?

[Nate]

Yeah, for sure man. Also important is having a variety of different effects in case you’re having a bad pain day, or suffering from insomnia, or whatever it may be.

[Somatek]

That’s exactly why I both keep moms of my key varieties as well as the motivation behind a side project building local grower/toker socials across  the country to facilitate people sharing extra clones for free so everyone has access to quality plants without paying an arm and a leg. Especially beginners as there’s enough other things to spend money on.

[Nate]

That’s a great idea. I’m sure there’s tons of growers where I am, but I only know a couple of them personally. I had high hopes for the nugswap subreddit, but it seems the only activity is Ontario based for the most part. A friend of mine is in the process of trying to bring a cloning business to the legal market, but I don’t know what the requirements for licencing would be for that, so who knows how long that will take to set up.

[Somatek]

I was involved in the original nugswaps and helping to spread the idea by organizing pot socials locally in Guelph and helping others who were interested learn to organize them locally.  I remember a women in Alberta and a guy from Kitchener-Waterloo both had local events but sadly covid kinda kaiboshed the whole thing.  I parted ways for nugswap for a couple reasons; there was little moderation of the subreddit as far as preventing people from selling clones and I know a couple people where taking advantage to sell “elite” clones/cuttings for insane prices.  Which is exactly what I want to avoid, people taking advantage of beginners for profit instead of being motivated to help them to grow the community.  It also creates a legal issue as “organizations” involved in the black market face huge fines now, which is why I never called any even I organized a nugswap but just pot social.

If you’re interested I can share the new blog I’ve been making as a simple way to spread the idea, share clones freely and openly and help people who want to organize a local event with what I’ve learned so far.

For a cloning business you’d need a nursery or micro nursery license which I seem to remember aren’t as heavily regulated as only a small portion of the grow can be in flower with the majority only usable for veg/micro propagation.  If he hasn’t already then he may want to talk to local LP’s, assuming he has unique/valuable genetics to share.  Since micro nurseries are allowed a one time declaration of what plants/seeds/etc they will be growing, without any questions about their source; a lot of LP’s will invest in nurseries for access to unique, new genetics as a competitive edge.

Personally I think the nursery space is a lot more interesting the LP’s as I imagine the mass production will shift overseas over the next 10 years as laws change around the world.  There’s already a lot of ex-pats moving to Thailand to be part of the burgeoning legal industry there.  When India legalizes there will be a huge shift in the market, the Middle East, South America and Africa all have the potential to grow pot for a fraction of what Canadian growers can produce.

Catering to the local consumers though through nurseries, glass galleries selling hand made bongs/pipes/etc, “u-harvest” businesses like the U-Brew but for pot where people can pay to use rosin presses, bubble hash machines or freeze dryers to process their crop properly with the guidance of experience extractors…  There’s so many possibilities if you think ahead instead of focusing just on the present.

[Nate]

Yeah I noticed the nugswap subreddit pretty much just devolved into another place for people trying to make a quick buck rather than people exchanging cannabis related things.

Im not personally one to want to organise something like that to be honest, I’m not huge into organising events as I’m kind of socially anxious lol.

As far as the cloning business, he worked at one of the LP’s here in NS, so I’m sure he has a better handle on the requirements and regulations. The last time we spoke about it he did mention that it would be a much easier path to getting the liscences than trying to open an LP. I think it definitely would fill an untapped niche in the homegrow market.

I think the u-brew it concept is really interesting, I’ve never even thought of that kind of business. I’d personally love to be able to take my bud and trim somewhere that I can make some hash out of it. I think it’s a great untapped market for people who don’t have the time or interest to invest into doing it themselves.

[Somatek]

I had an interview at a pot shop last week, while two actually, which is basically the idea I pitched them; differentiate from the herd by turning it into a one stop pot shop where people can buy seeds, hand made glass instead of the production pieces every shop carries, bud/concentrates/edibles/seeds obviously, basic grow gear and clones when available and then have a room with a rosin press and bubble hash machine to use, when the market grows enough invest in a freeze dryer to properly make live rosin from fresh frozen bud.  That’s a shop that’d bridge the legal/illegal divide by catering to all pot heads with endless opportunities to organize social events like drops from artists or craft growers, a harvest cup at the end of outdoor season, 420 and 710 obviously…

We’ll see if this shop is ambitious enough to think of the future and start branding now for first mover advantage, considering how much home growing has already increased since legalization I think it’s a big niche that’s not being served.  Realistically I think a lot of head shops and hydro shops are going to fade out with the hit they’ve taken since legalization.  We’ll see how things play out I suppose though

[Nate]

Damn, that’s really cool man. I hope you get the job! I know for sure there’s a market for stuff like that, my aunt and uncle are in Ontario north of Toronto, and they have been growing the last couple of summers, but they don’t even smoke it, so they’ve been having to figure out how to make edibles and creams on their own. I feel like the older generations that are new to cannabis since legalization are an under represented market for classes or shops that you’ve been talking about that will process your harvest for you. I definitely think you’re onto something, the question is who’s the one thats going to start doing it first.

[Somatek]

That’s part of the idea of organizing socials as it creates a chance to invite guest speakers to talk about how to make edibles or salves/creams, extraction techniques or whatever else you can think of.

Who takes that first leap is the big question as it’s always the riskiest but if done smartly works out wonderfully as it redefines the industry.

[Nate]

Yeah fair enough. I’d definitely want to go to something like that, I just wouldn’t want to be the one to have to organize it lol.

[Somatek]

Fully relatable, I usually need a day to relax and unwind after organizing them as it’s a lot of energy and can easily get stressful.  The key is to find one of those handy extroverts that thrives on social life and motivate them to do it lol

[Nate]

Yeah for sure. I can think of a few dj/event promoters I know that would be that type of extrovert lol.

[Somatek]

Sounds like a natural fit considering how much most DJ’s I know smoke up.  Ironically I’m watching “people just do nothing” at the moment on CBC lol

[Nate]

Right on, I’ve never heard of that one. I’ll have to check it out. Looks like it might be up my alley.

[Somatek]

It’s a tongue in cheek show about a couple of pirate radio DJ’s antics from the BBC.  Kind of like the office combined with trailer park boys lol

[Nate]

Yeah, I looked it up, and the description looked pretty good.

[Somatek]

It’s always good for a laugh after a toke or five.  What are some of your favourite shows?

[Nate]

I don’t watch a whole lot of shows these days to be honest. I watch a lot of YouTube and twitch mostly. If I’m gonna watch a tv show, I’ll usually go for something light like Rick and Morty, or another adult cartoon.

[Somatek]

I’ll usually have one of the grow shows from youtube playing as I do house work and chores, it’s pretty easy to see why entertainment changed so quickly as people could make their own content and share it.  With my back issues I watch way too much netflix while I was laid out, it’s nice to be free of the mindless entertainment and able to enjoy life again.

[Nate]

Yeah for sure. I’ll generally throw on a stream while I’m gardening, or playing video games, or whatever. Glad to hear you’re not laid up any more, back issues are no joke.

[Somatek]

My back issues and experience around them really highlighted how underfunded and inadequate our health care system was before the pandemic.  Don’t get me wrong I’m grateful we have such a good health care system and social supports but am also aware of their need for more funding or updating in the case of social supports.

What video games/kind of games do you play?  I just got back into gaming a couple years ago with cyberpunk 2077 (I use to love the CP2020 RPG) and play a lot of Elder Scrolls Online.

[Nate]

Yeah, it’s pretty scary how bad the medical situation is right now. As of July 2021, over 100,000 Nova Scotians are registered as needing a family doctor (myself included), and if you need a specialist of some kind you’re looking at months if not years of waiting.

 

As far as video games, I’m without a console (except for an old ass Xbox 360), so I’ve got to pick and choose whatever I can get to work. I’m using a 2012 mac pro as my only computer, so I’m even more limited than normal mac users (I got it for music production, not for gaming lol). I had been using Stadia a little bit (I bought cyberpunk 2077 and sekiro along with a few other games), but they just announced that they’re shutting down by mid January. I was pretty into Dark Souls II for a while, but that can get frustrating lol. I played a couple of hours of ESO when they had a free weekend on Stadia, but I never picked it up.

[Somatek]

Lmao, I’ve been using Stadia since I bought cyberpunk and was equally disappointed to hear they’re shutting it down.  So much promise and no follow through, although it was great to play modern games on my toshiba, which is also 10+years old lol.  I’ll make sure I enjoy CP2077 at least once or twice before it’s gone, I’m not too sour as long as the refund they offer is decent as life goes on.

[Nate]

Yeah the announcement that they were going to refund everything definitely makes it an easier pill to swallow. Also, you can get your saved games through google takeout, so if you buy it on steam or whatever, you can just pick up from there. I’ve thought about trying out the xbox cloud service, but haven’t as of yet. I’ve tried GFN, but i didn’t find that it worked super well, and the queue to wait for the free version is insanely long.

[Somatek]

ESO is what I’m mostly invested in and the game data is already saved on their servers so will be linked to whatever PC game platform I play it on luckily.  I may do that for CP2077, although I usually just play games like that through and create new characters every time.

Assuming the refund is decent in the end I’ve got a good controller to use and I’ve had 3 good years of entertainment for almost no money.  Sucks having to find an alternative but there isn’t much to complain about.

[Nate]

That’s convenient that the saves are server side for ESO. As far as the refund is concerned I believe they are refunding all purchases made except for stadia pro subscriptions. This includes hardware and all software if I’m understanding it correctly.

From this blog post:

“We will be refunding all Stadia hardware purchases made through the Google Store, and all game and add-on content purchases made through the Stadia store. Players will continue to have access to their games library and play through January 18, 2023 so they can complete final play sessions. We expect to have the majority of refunds completed by mid-January, 2023”

So yeah, it seems like it is as generous of a refund as can be expected.

[Somatek]

I read it the same as you, that it’ll be a full refund for all purchases as they don’t specify otherwise.  Which means I’ve got money to buy a new light soon enough as you can never have too much light in the veg room lol.  It just means you can grow more varieties lol

[Nate]

Yeah, I think I’ve only got about $100 worth of purchases, but it’d be enough for a small veg/clone light.

[Somatek]

That’s pretty much where I’m at, maybe $100-150 all in; so just enough for a light and maybe some capillary mats to make the bottom feed planters into SIP.  Eventually the grow will be done getting set up and I can start saving for a new game system, until then I guess it’s back to reality sadly…

[Nate]

Yeah I don’t really have any plans on getting a console any time soon. I get more enjoyment out of growing anyways, so I’d rather put my money into that if I have to choose lol. I think at some point I may get a secondary bootable drive for my mac so that I can run windows, and possibly run more games. The other thing I’m looking at is getting a metal capable graphics card, but the prices on those are outrageous at the moment, so that’ll have to wait until the market settles back down.

[Somatek]

It’s like you’re reading my mind lol, as much fun as video games are as a distraction sometimes I’ve got too much going on with my grow and related projects to really think of investing in any other hobbies at the moment.  Not to mention time or energy lol.

[Atom]

So I’m not Canadian but I’m from a spot in michigan they call almost Canada lol. It’s a snow belt and gets dump with snow, more than surrounded area.

[Somatek]

Close enough, anyone that has to suffer through winters around the 49th parallel is a bonded by something stronger then nationality; talking about the weather and when spring will come…

Especially as Michigan has a pretty thriving medical scene, what’s it like down there as far as the local scene goes?

[Atom]

Most all the peeps I know are old school outdoor types. Been around them most my life and I feel lucky to have shared joints with these old dinos lol. There Quality is definitely lacking but they are from a different time. Is cool hearing there old story’s

[Somatek]

One of my favourite books is “romancing mary jane” for exactly that reason, it’s just filled with stories about growing through the 90’s and earlier.  It’s been wild seeing the tail end of prohibition, almost a decade without laws really being enforced and now the creation of corpo weed which is Canada is severely limited by the regulations around biological testing which forces LP’s to irradiate their crops and nuke those tasty mono terps off

[Atom]

The biggest problem with shop smoke here is its always way to dry. There scared of mold,and have zero passion for the plant only money, so they dry it out terribly, dry it fast, pack it up and send it off for sale. They don’t care, and honestly most people don’t either. If it looks dank that’s all they care about. Any thing that is Any good is pre packed and still pretty pricey  like 30-60 for 8ths

[Somatek]

Sounds like Canada when pot shops proliferated before legalization when it was the golden time for the black market before it crashed.  I’ve seen lbs of bud online for $700 retail now, the value has just bottomed out with the excess being produced in the legal market.  It reminds me of the comments from the British MP’s who came to look at legalization in Canada and said something to the effect of “They’ve done an excellent job of showing the worst way to legalize” lol.  Which is why even now I’m a big advocate of home growing as I think it’ll be another 5-10 years before the laws are logical and don’t enable the black market by limiting the legal one.  Which is no different then when alcohol was legalized after prohibition, the original laws were a huge over reach (anyone else remember growing up in the 80’s and being left in the car while parents ran into the LCBO/Beer Store as only 19+ were allowed in?) that didn’t make sense and were a reflection of the stigma left from biased laws.

[Nate]

I think the biggest problem that could arise is I feel that the legislation could lean more and more towards large corporations holding the majority of the market in that time. 5-10 years is a long time for the big companies to grease the wheels and coerce politicians who don’t know any better. Who knows though, maybe the review that they have under way will actually prove to be useful, and encourage them to amend the laws in a way that would benefit the industry.

[Somatek]

Are any of the big corps actually turning a profit and making headway in the legal market?  It seems like the small to mid size ones are the ones people like, anticipate drops for and are selling bud instead of destroying it.  It was only a couple months ago that it was reported 425 million grams were destroyed by LP’s which isn’t going to be small growers but the big boys.

The more people speak up by writing their MP’s and newspapers about the issues with our pot laws and how they support the black market, the more pressure there will be to fix them and create a legal market that meets our needs while being profitable and accessible for people to work in the legal market. Whether it’s the over taxation or over regulation of LP’s limiting their ability to compete, to the illogical laws around home growing or the issue with unregulated pot clinics being ‘script mills that sell prescriptions based on how much people are willing to pay not medical need (my personal pet peeve as a patient).

All that being said, considering the laws aren’t really enforced at all anymore, it’s more theoretical vs practical for most people.

[Nate]

I definitely agree that the consumer demand is leaning towards the smaller producers, which is nice to see. Hopefully the big corporations will just die out, but I kind of doubt they will any time soon. I can’t say for certain, but I feel like the average consumer is getting better educated about what quality cannabis should be. I remember when it was first legalized, I had a friend who would just go in and ask for whatever the highest THC % they have.

[Somatek]

Consumers are definitely starting to learn more, although the poor regulations that limit the quality of LP weed are a significant obstacle in legal growers differentiating themselves as most of it ends up tasting the same lol.

A lots going to change pretty quickly as the laws around the world change, sadly Canadian LP’s have squandered any first mover advantage and have developed a pretty poor reputation as big liabilities once their over inflated stock valuations based on the idea Canadians would pay $15-20+/g for “premium” bud  when their own studies show irradiation destroyed 20-30% of the monoterpenes which have tumbled to being worthless as their ignorance became clear.  I’m very glad to see more old heads moving into the legal market and thriving, just a shame the laws limiting them for so long and again stiffled the legal market instead of embracing them up front and getting their input into how to regulate the industry logically.

[Nate]

That’s an absolutely absurd price to be paying for bud lol. If you can even count that irradiated bud as premium haha. But yeah, it does seem like the industry is moving towards better operated craft producers getting more traction in the market.

[Somatek]

They were basing the pricing off what they were getting in Germany from the legal med market there as well as what they were seeing in States that had legalized without realizing how entrenched the black market was in Canada or how out of step their prices/quality was.  It was a pretty quick lesson to learn though when you look at how quickly the pot stocks tanked when their promises failed to pan out.

[Nate]

That makes sense. If they had done even a shred of market research they would’ve known that that wouldn’t fly. The only time I’ve ever seen people selling $15 grams was in NFLD, and that was quickly shut down by a bunch of Nova Scotians that came in and undercut the market with $10 grams and better bud lol.

[Somatek]

Some dispensaries had high prices like that but I’m sure the history books will state the arrogance of the LP’s and the refusal of their CEO’s to listen was a key factor in their downfall.  Ironically most of them had new CEO’s installed before legalization as the investors didn’t trust such big companies valued at some much in the hands of pot heads.  I knew a bunch of growers that started working for LP’s like canopy back around 2010 who all sold their stock and retired at the height of their prices before they crashed as they could see the writing on the wall.  Any legal market shows the same curve, prices go up briefly and then crash dramatically as over supply ruins the valuation.  At $350 a half pound retail, the only growers left in the BM are the big illegal grows trying to get the last drop of milk out before their cash cow dries up completely.  Even 10 years ago the average price was $2400/lbs for the same AAA mids that are now going for almost a quarter of that.

[Nate]

It just goes to show that there’s always companies that will try to make a quick buck rather than try to build a lasting industry. Definitely one of the worse facets of our current capitalist system.

[Somatek]

Yep, that’s how we end up with a speculative market that’s exponentially bigger then the real world economy based on actual goods, services and resources.  You think we’d learn after the crash in ’08-09 instead of doubling down and doing it again with even more enthusiasm…

[Nate]

So true it hurts. But they just want to do a capitalism harder lol. Hopefully people will come around to more socialized politics and improve society’s material conditions.

[Somatek]

Watching the collapse of the American democracy under Trump was interesting, really made me think of Jane Jacob’s “death of the great american city” and the parallels she drew between the Greek, Roman, Rritish and American empires to trace their rise and decline.  Then again I love cyperpunk fiction and have read it since the late 80’s/early 90’s, so it’s kind fun seeing the dystopian nightmare slowly rise as people organize and push back.  I’m still waiting for my cybernetic implants though, growing would be so much easier with a cyber eye and tech hands with built in EC/pH/temp probes, bioscanners and automated nute dispensers…

[Nate]

Yeah, give me those cybernetic eyes that can automatically diagnose plant issues and tell me exactly the nutrients that the plants need lol. I’m not familiar with that author, but I have heard the parallels between the Roman empire and the US. I’m no expert in politics, but from what I understand this has been a slow and steady movement from the republican party for decades in order to further their goals. Anyways, there’s nothing we can really do as Canadians except to sit down and watch it crumble. It’s just unfortunate that Canadian society is so heavily influenced by American politics.

[Somatek]

We can learn the lessons of letting extremists get too much of a voice in our political parties, which is why I’m scared of Pierre Polliviere and would really like to see our first past the post system replaced with a proportional representation one, in some form or another.

Ironically now that you mention it, I was just reading about a start up company that’s trying to make an app that’ll diagnose pot issues based on off a pic of a leaf.  It uses machine learning AI and research pics from universities, legal grows, etc, to build the database to diagnose issues accurately.  Not a cyber eye but pretty damn close.  That’s what I love about cyberpunk, seeing what ideas around tech they got close and which are completely off.

[Nate]

I think I might have actually heard about that app on a podcast a little while ago. Pretty cool concept, but I wonder how well it works. I think I tried to use it maybe like a year ago, but I think the app was a little clunky if I’m remembering correctly.

[Somatek]

To be honest with you I don’t know much about it, I was just looking at a job posting where that was the companies description.  I doubt I’ll hear back but it’d be fun getting paid to answer people’s questions all day instead of just doing it for free lol.

[Nate]

I mean, you’d certainly be good at it. Definitely a good fit lol.

[Author]

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