Does anyone know what this could be?

[Keith]

I found it on one leaf yesterday and took it off to look it over with a microscope.  I couldn’t find any bugs or anything that stood out.  Then today I went in there and the same plant has it on another leaf.  I haven’t fed anything yet, no cal mag, planted in ffof and was potted up twice.  Been watering with spring water, between 6-7ph.

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[Somatek]

Doesn’t look like bug damage, purple petioles with necrotic spots on leaves make me think it’s a nutrient issue though.  What nutrient and why are the questions.  It looks like it’s showing up mid plant or is it more on the lower fan leaves?  Any other signs or things looking out of place?  I’m guessing this is only your second or third crop?  Only reason I ask is I’m wondering if you have many past crops to compare it with and if anything different.

[Keith]

It’s closer to the bottom than the top but I’d say mid plant is where the leaf is.  I haven’t fed anything yet but have potted up twice.  I use spring water which is prob lacking in cal or mag.  This morning another plant is showing signs of what I’m pretty sure is cal mag def, so I’m guessing that’s prob what it is.  I’ll feed cal mag today with the PowerSi and fulvic.

[Keith]

It is fucking cal mag!  I do only have 2 other grows but when you mentioned that I thought back and right around the same time in both grows I had to stay adding cal mag.  I was getting much different signs on those other grows though.  Not little dots.  But with everything everyone said plus the previous problem happening at the same time, is gotta be.

[Somatek]

There you go figuring it out while I was busy.  Mid plant is always a strong reason to look at CalMag and assuming you’re growing under LED’s the soil probably doesn’t have sufficient quantities as most seem designed for the traditional HID’s still.

Glad you got it sorted

[Cannabliss]

I wouldn’t keep plucking the affected leaves off. The issue will only start affecting another leaf, or leaves.

Considering you haven’t been feeding anything, just fresh soil with each up-pot, and spring water that you may be lacking in minerals usually in our tap water.

Is there any reason you don’t use your local tap?

Also, are you ph’ing this water/feeds to be 6-7?

If you are using ph adjustments, I would stop. The soil can buffer the water for you at least for a couple weeks from getting up potted.

 

In the end, I think adding calmag to that spring water may help it from spreading.  Using your tap if it’s not too hard or soft. Mine is 145ppm and 7.6 PH.

I do PH my water, but I use potassium silicate as PH up & I add it to the water before I add anything else & let it sit.  My soil is recycled FFOF reamended with ewc. Fed GH nutes for this grow.

It’s recommended by Athena Nutrients to measure the amount needed to bring PH to ideal range after adding nutes & record this number.  They are one of the only companies making products specifically formulated for cannabis I believe. So to me, it seems like pretty decent advice.

This amount is what’s to be used prior to adding nutrients/supplements as to not cause any chemical reactions that could knock out some nutrients out of play.

I haven’t proven that, I just heard it on a podcast.. so to be safe.. I run with it.

 

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Cannabliss.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Cannabliss.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Cannabliss.

[Keith]

Shit man thanks.  I usually don’t pluck leaves like that but I thought I was seeing bugs on the back.  I wasn’t though.

I usually always ph my water with up or down.  Usually down.  My tap water is just fucking gross.  I tested the ppm once, I think I was around 150.  I’ll test it again today.  But it just smells like chlorine.  I get this other water from a local spring so it’s still also free and it’s what we drink so once a month I go fill up all my jugs.

I was thinking prob cal mag too, bc I haven’t fed any yet plus last night the other 1 is showing signs that look more like cal or mag or both deficiency, but I didn’t want to say that bc I generally always think it’s just cal mag.  It’s watering day today.  I’ll prob go at least another week without feeding considering I just potted up 5 days ago.  But I will start adding cal mag and continue to add PowerSi and fulvic.  Thanks for the reply bro.

[Somatek]

Canna Nutrients is actually the oldest/first company to start making nutrients specifically for weed over 20 years ago, which is another reason I often suggest them.  The started to cater to the Dutch growing scene, which is why they’re product was designed for pot, not to mention being called Canna.  Their old website use to have pics of pot leaves showing different nutrient issues back when Canadian police chiefs were comparing growers to murderers.  The fact their product line hasn’t really changed and is still based on minimal but effective products (base nutrient, root booster, enzyme, bloom booster; although they’ve added terp boosters and a couple other things over the decades) speaks to the quality while also shows they don’t rely on heavy marketing.  Just quality products that grow good pot, easily.

[Atom]

It looks like lack of calcium to me. The bit of purple starting on the stalks could be a sign of needing magnesium, i feel like adding some cal-mag would get things back on track. You have definitely caught it early on, shouldn’t take long to get back to normal.

[Keith]

Thank you bro.  I think your right on and will do that this morning.

[Crystal Anderson]

Possibly thrips. Have you checked under leaves and soil for bugs

[Keith]

I checked very well with a microscope but found nothing.  I spent 30 min going over the plant.

[Somatek]

Thrip damage is usually more of a trail of discoloration where they’ve been feeding, not specific spots which can mean spider mites but is usually accompanied by sickly leaves showing discoloration from being fed on by the time necrotic tissue is noticeable.  Which combined with the deep reddish/purple petioles is usually a strong indicator of nutrient issues, especially when it expresses mid plant with is related to calcium.

Although without more info I wouldn’t have guessed and just asked question, even if there were worded in a leading way by mentioning mid plant first to but the worm in the ear it may be a calmag issue.

[Keith]

I think that’s what it is, I’m going to feed tomorrow.

[Brucewaynegardens]

Looks like a ph issue and not insect damage

[Keith]

I ph every time.  A couple others suggested maybe cal mag, which now that I think about it makes sense bc my other 2 grows showed something I guess kinda similar, but not really, around the same age.

[Loves2Trim]

You guys are great! Just reading all these comments are giving me great ideas for the next grow.

Cannablis good mention on the PHing of water too much. I think one of my past problems is using shitloads of PHdown.

Also someone mentioned in another threat excess calcium. MY well water is HARD!!!! I may be having that problem as well and i dont believe my water softener is doing anything good for the ladies. Its not really strong enough to take care of my water lol

Im gonna get a whole house RO filter. The soil buffer will surely force the RO water to the right PH as well as eliminate build up of PH down and Water Softener Salts. Also I can Control the Cal Mag intake.

Thank you guys for the chats!

[Keith]

I can tell you this, when I use bottled spring water that tests at 8ppm I can adjust the pH with just a few drops.  When I use only the spring water from the spring near my house that tests at 56ppm I have to use loads of ph down.   I think it’s just harder water.  I started mixing them and the plants seem to like it fine.  Usually in flower the tiger bloom will bring my ph within range, but all the rest of the time I’m adjusting with ph down.

[Brad104]

To @loves2trim this forums got a lot of great individuals who are willing to help the next guy I love it.I just hope that everyone stays as helpful as time goes along,but as for now I believe that anyone of us is willing to offer help to one another and thanks for being involved as well. This is the best forum on the web.

[Atom]

I’m pretty lucky to have decent water. I depends on if it rains hard or sometimes in spring with snow melt it can get more TDS but I’m at about 100 TDS if i let cold water run for few mins. Hot water will have much more TDS because it builds up in your tank, unless you have tank less of course. My hot is about 250. I try to only put as little as possible hot in, about 1/4 of a 5 gallon bucket will make it warm enough for the plants, with putting minimal amount of mystery Minerals into your water. I get about 150 and ph of 7, sometimes 6.7 during winter and dry times.

[Keith]

Do you grow in soil?  Honestly I haven’t ever paid too much attention to tds or ppm when feeding.  I just follow the ff feeding schedule.  I started too a few months back but didn’t stick with it.  I do ph every time though.

[Somatek]

Let me tell you about the first 2-3 years I grew and struggled endlessly with nute lock up or deficiencies endlessly no matter what I did, what I used or tried.  That is until I met another local grower who casually said “You are using filtered water right?  You know our tap water is around 600-800ppm right?”…  It’s pulled from the ground water aquifer and we live on top on limestone so the waters been percolating down for decades absorbing  calcium to utterly unusable levels for growing with fertilizers…

It’s not said nearly enough, nearly loud enough or discussed; fertilizers/nutrients are chemical reactions, even in organics as nutrient absorption is often based on hydrogen ion exchange.  As @Keith mentioned, the higher the PPM of the base water, the more pH up or down is needed to adjust it.  The more ferts you add, the more amendments all affect how the pH acts as far as adjusting it and it’s stability.  Simply adding things in the wrong order can affect things.  Adding potassium silicate after fertilizers will often cause precipitate to form as it bonds with other minerals, adding it first to adjust the pH avoids those problems.

Practically in your situation I would get a clean water source (even if it’s buying RO or spring water) for your plants.  I personally wouldn’t want a house wide RO system as RO creates 3-4 times the volume of waste water as pure.  Having it for drinking water and the grow makes sense, the rest of the house is fine with soft water though.  Speaking of which, soft water shouldn’t be used for a grow as it uses salt to bind the excess calcium so it doesn’t cake in pipes/fixtures or create stains but that adds a lot of instability to the soil chemistry as things bond to them and become unavailable to the plant.

Once you have clean water I’d flush the plants heavily with at least twice the volume of water as there is soil, up to as much as 4 times (so anywhere from 2-4gal of water for each gallon of soil) as you want to wash out everything in there and get it back to being an inert soilless mix.  Then you can use clean water and the fertilizers will be properly available, without needing as much pH up/down to adjust it and you’ll see much better growth.

[Keith]

That’s very helpful information.  I was thinking about getting a test done for the water that I get from the spring.  There’s those free tests you can get at home depot but there’s some labs online that will test it for around $150.  You think it’s worth it to get that water tested?

[Somatek]

I personally just check the EC (aka PPM, which is actually a conversion of EC based on one of two numbers, which is why I generally use EC instead as it can cause confusion if people are using different PPM conversions and don’t mention it) and pH as those tell you the relevant info.  As long as they’re in a good range I wouldn’t worry about it as there’s probably bigger limiting factors in your grow that will have a bigger affect on the crop if resolved.  Always work on the major issues down to the minor; once everything else is dialed in and you think/know water is the limiting factor despite being in a good general EC/pH range is when I’d get it tested.

For example I know my biggest limiting factor is my laziness, limited budget, not having the flower room fully set up which means I’m not paying enough attention to the plants; so the watering/fertilizing schedule is off.  Once the room is set up getting the lighting right will be key as I need to figure out how to get an even canopy at the same PPFD, possibly switching from a 600w to two 315 cmH for more even distribution in the cool tube.  Then I’ll focus on air circulation.  Temp/humidity/VPD I’ll be adjusting along the way as the ventilation system is basically finished.  After that I’ll worry about getting the nutrients and watering dialed in as the evapotranspiration rate will be constant.  Constantly finding smaller variables to adjust and optimize as I resolve the major issues.  That’s my best advice for any beginner or someone learning; focus on understanding the major issues first and resolving them as you learn and work down to the more minor things.  Trying a bunch of different techs like topping vs scrog vs fim’ing are more minor, personal choices as they all work.  If you try to experiment with them all before you have a stable grow and base level of knowledge you’ll be seeing the results of those more then the differences between the techniques.  A plant with a brix of 5-10 vs 15+ aren’t that visibly different but grow a lot differently.  When my brix is high I expect clones to root in 7-10 days max in soil, if it’s low I expect 14-21 days for roots…  Focus on the basic without worrying about additives, tips or tricks as much; getting the basics down is more important and has the biggest effect on a crops health, yield and quality.

[Keith]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>That makes a shit load of sense.  And in a few weeks I’ll be redoing my grow space and have a lot of other things to figure out that are more important.  I wanted to experiment with moving the dehu and heating/cooling inside the larger tent I’ll build.  5×8 with a 4×5 or maybe 3×5 growing area.  I don’t know how it’ll all work though.  The dehu I have is like 50 pint I think, it’s a large one, so I think it might blow too much warm air around the tent.  But it’ll be winter so maybe that’ll be helpful and alleviate the need for a heater.  Bc the days will usually be in the 50-60’s. But at nights it gets cold 20-30°, so I know I’ll need one then.  There’s a lot I don’t know.  This is also my first winter growing.  I’m in an insulated building but it’s got no centralized heating/cooling.  I still don’t know if I’ll have to condition the lung room or just the tent.  I would think I’ll prob have to heat the lung room too.  I think the air is dry here in the winter so I shouldn’t need a dehu outside of the one I keep in the tent.  If I keep it in there.  I’m going to go check what the average rh in winter is here.</p>

[Somatek]

I’ve often run dehumidifiers in rooms with no problem as they tend to blow the conditioned air upwards so it mixes with the ambient temps/humidity instead of blowing over the plants causing issues.  I don’t imagine it’ll cause problems with with big temp swings like that the added heat will help during the dark periods plus you’ll need to control the humidity swings.

If it’s a cold, dry air I wouldn’t be surprised if you need both a heater and a humidifier in the lung room to get the air/vpd into a good range for the tent.  Are you planning to exhaust the tent outside or are you going to try and recirculate the heat through your place to use the heat in your living space?

[Keith]

The building is two prob 20×20 rooms seperate by a bathroom and an entry way.  What I’ve been doing is blocking off the lung room with a blanket at the doorway and venting the exhaust into the other room through 20ft of 6in duct.  If it was important enough I could cut a hole or use a window to vent directly outside.  But I thought the building was big enough plus I constantly had 2 window units bringing in fresh air.  This winter I won’t.  I just thought of that.  How will I get enough fresh air into the building?  I could not seperate the rooms like I was then I’ll have 2 rooms worth of fresh air to use.  But then I def have to exhaust outside and I’ll have to heat 2 rooms instead of just one.  What do you think about the amount of fresh air one 20×20 room would produce for 3-4 plants?  The windows are fairly new, it looks like, but I know there’s a lot of gaps around the front door.  Like a shit load.  Fresh air can get in there.  Maybe I just gotta keep a window cracked and use a heater in the lung room.  Then I’ll just seal it off with a blanket.  I honestly have no idea how much fresh air I need to have in the lung room.

[Keith]

It’s a seperate building from my living space.

[Somatek]

Filter the air being vented back into the lung room to prevent issues with pathogens and then look at supplemental CO2 to keep their levels up, combined with whatever fresh air is drawn in through the door.  The only need of “fresh” air is keeping the CO2 levels from being depleted but most professional grows use a sealed environment where the air is conditioned to keep the temps/humidity and CO2 in ideal ranges.  With proper filtration it’s a great way to run a grow.

Supplemental CO2 can be as complicated as using CO2 tanks with their solonoid valves connected to either an intermittent timer or complex controllers metering it out; to something as simple as growing mushrooms (edible or psychedelic) or as low cost as having vinegar drip on baking soda.

From what you’ve described that may be the best use of the space to minimize the overhead costs by reusing the heat to reduce inputs while working towards an environment that’s perfectly and easily controlled.

[Keith]

I understand what you’re saying.  There’s no air being vented into the lung room intentionally though.  When I vent air out the blanket door gets sucked in.  So I know it’s getting fresh air from there but what I’m picking up from you is that the only thing I need the fresh air for is CO2.  And if that’s the case I can just supplement it.  So at that point I wouldn’t want any fresh air getting into the tent?  I would keep the dehu and heater/cooler in there to optimize the environment then I’d seal it up?  So no exhaust fan if I started using CO2 in a sealed environment?

[Brad104]

I learned a lot from just reading your responses we have definitely been in some good discussions as of today and it is just getting better every day

[Keith]

Yeah I have definitely picked up a lot since joining this forum

[Brad104]

That goes for me as well @keith.Ive personally gained quite a few more tools to add to the set for sure after spending quite a bit of time with you guys, and it’s not only been enjoyable, but it’s knowledgeable as well 🙂

[whippysloth]

As Brad said following for all the good info

[Keith]

How long have you been growing?

[Author]

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