SF4000 vs 600w HPS Comparison Grow

[HippyFarmer420]

I am setting up a comparison journal between a Spider Farmer SF4000 and an old magnetic 600w HPS. .

I have never ran LED’s before “other then 1 veg run with a blurple light”, but I have been using HID’s for almost 17 years.

I will be running this run in a 10×13 ft room with the lights hanging side by side..

Pre mixed organic soils is what they will be ran with, with all plants receiving the same treatments.

Pics to come as we set this up..

[Nate]

Hell yeah, I’m interested to see how this goes. I’ve been wanting to make the switch from MH/HPS to LED, it’s just been a bit of a struggle getting the funds together for the light I want to get.

[HippyFarmer420]

I found this SF4000 second hand for 300CAD, It was barely used, dude bought it for his tomatoes but didn’t have time to grow anymore “he was a fekin cop” lol..

[HippyFarmer420]

SF4000

[HippyFarmer420]

600w magnetic ballast hung and ready to go..

[HippyFarmer420]

Vivosun Super HPS Bulb

[HippyFarmer420]

If I post 2 pics in 1 reply it wont send the reply through, what am I doing wrong here?

 

[HippyFarmer420]

Strain being ran during this test..

 

Dotz “Runtz x Stardawg”

Z-Dawg “Zkittles x Stardawg”

[HippyFarmer420]

Kosher Kings “Kosher Kush x GDP”

[HippyFarmer420]

I will be germinating seeds the old fashion “paper towel” method, tried and proven for many years..

From there they will go into rapid rooters while their soil “cooks”..

[HippyFarmer420]

I am anxious to see how this 450w led stacks up against a 600w, I know from start up tests “not using par meters yet”, but from visual the SF4000 is brighter then the 600w but they are different spectrums as well..

Ive vegged under HPS for several years with no real big issues “maybe some stretch but nothing life threatening”.

Im anticipating the plants will have much tighter nodes with the SF4000 then the 600w, but we will see how the full run finishes out..

I will get weights and everything at the end and do my best to keep this journal as up to date as possible..

Strap in, the ride will begin shortly!

 

 

[HippyFarmer420]

I picked up some Promix Organic bloodmeal today, NPK= 8-0-0..

I will mix this in with my soil mix when I make it here soon..

I will write down the ratio of everything as I mix it..

I’ll be picking up ProMix HP and some worm castings soon.

[Brad104]

That’s what’s up I’ve been wondering how much better if any at all which light it’d be.
I’m strapped in and ready bro!
Best of luck

[Brad104]

I’d also love to run anything that is full runtz line or partial.Ive heard and read nothing but good things about the runtz strain period.

[HippyFarmer420]

I got my dehumidifier on getting room prepped..

I have high humidity issues every since our basement flooded a couple years ago.

We are redoing the whole house but its one step at a time “cost of renovations are enough to break us common people”.

 

Numbers before I started using dehumidifier..

[HippyFarmer420]

The starting RH is very high, uncomfortable type of RH..  I had to do something..

 

Dehumidifier is helping control the numbers better, we are about to redo our central venting system here soon, converting over to forced propane from dirty ass oil..

Once we make this conversion everything will be a lot more controlled, I will also be remodeling the basement all next year.

We are even adding a big enough solar system to run us off grid “we will have to finance this’.

Here are numbers after dehumidifier has been running.

[HippyFarmer420]

Since I got the 30 pint dehumidifier I have been able to keep the RH down and stable, once we put in the forced air this will also drive humidity way down,

[HippyFarmer420]

Im also about to have my hands completely full with the outdoor thats about to come down, this will take me a while to finish trimming and curing this run..

 

Plants like this dont trim themselves, “I wish”

[HippyFarmer420]

After outside run is fully done everything else will start to pick up pace..

This year Im having to bring in 3 buddies to help me with this trimming, it’s just too much for 1 person to handle.

[asa.eco]

Thats a huge tree!! For trimming: maybe trim the big leaves the week before cutting, if u spend an hour a day u can get a lot done in one week and the plant doesnt really need a lot of foliage in the last week. Less work when your buddies come – more time to hang and smoke.

[HippyFarmer420]

Old man isn’t scared of work, Ill get them all trimmed up, I do this every year “use to it”.

[HippyFarmer420]

That’s an older pic, I am going to take harvest pics soon.. They are MUCH bigger now.

[HippyFarmer420]

Needless to say I am going to have a lot of rosin at the end of the month, we are about to put that 10 ton press to overtime work.

[HippyFarmer420]

Here is some of the organic nutrients I will be using.. I still need to get a couple more bales of Pro Mix HP and a couple bags of worm castings..

I will fully run down the soil mix, all the ingredients and the ratios when I mix up the soil..

[HippyFarmer420]

I still need to pick up the following:

Pro Mix HP/Myco

Worm castings 20 litre bag

Kelp meal

Bokashi

Diatomaceous Earth

 

Since I spent a shit ton of money this year on my outside garden I am having to piece work the supplies atm for my indoor, if I push to get it all at once my wife will blow up “especially after spending our vacation money this year on dirt for outside garden”, she still hasn’t forgiven me for that yet.

I will get the rest of everything I need soon

[HippyFarmer420]

I also forgot to mention that my water source is pure well water, 7.2 from the tap.

I do not adjust my ph, nor do I really check it much anymore, it has stayed very consistent over the years and we have good well water.

I do not need to let it sit out over night to evaporate any chlorine, I can just mix compost teas and brew straight away.

 

I also need to pick up a new air pump this year as well, I am making a new compost brewer.

 

I am making this compost brewer.

 

 

[asa.eco]

Nice collection of fertilizers and amendments, out of the ones you still need to get i would prioritize worm casting and myco, they are really the staples of indoor organic. You could even invest into your own bokashi/worm farm since youve got the outdoor space. Its not that expensive and you basicly have an infinite supply of either bokashi or vermicompost or just regular compost. Nothing beats homemade expecially when it comes to price. Another cheap diy amendment you could try are fermented plant/fruit extracts, they are a great tonic/microfertilizer especially if money is tight, just plant materials, LABs, sugar and water. Also do you use covercrop?

[HippyFarmer420]

I already have a worm farm, but those casting are for my outdoor beds..

I already have a good connection on Bokashi, I get it pretty cheap.

There are only a few things I will pick up, I have pretty much everything I need, just some soil.

The Pro Mix has myco in it, no need to waste money on buying extra.

[HippyFarmer420]

As far as cover crops, I have a lot of clovers outside naturally already, I also will just use woodchips for mulch in the indoor garden..

 

[Keith]

This is cool, I’ll be watching and trying to catch up on reading all the posts.

[Keith]

I just caught up, lol.   I’ve got a compost pile that’s been going all summer.  It’s mostly dirty now but I keep adding lawn clippings.  I want to try living soil soon.

[HippyFarmer420]

If you are composting, you should turn your compost frequently..

This will allow more air into the pile and help break it down faster.

[Somatek]

Very cool, I’ll be interested to follow along.  What variables that’ll affect the grow have you considered and how do you plan to mitigate them to equalize the comparison?  Are you planning to run this test a couple times until you have the experience with LED’s to optimize how to grow under them?

[HippyFarmer420]

As far as variable go in this run, I am going to do everything I can possibly do to make this as fair as possible..

They will both be running same strains, same soil, same size pots, same room, literally side by side..

I had to bring the lights down in the room temp, I had to convert room into an emergency drying room.

My outdoor is finishing up and I ended up pulling a lot more then I was expecting, so now I had to convert this room to dry cause I already filled up 2 other rooms.

Tho drying will be done in about 2 weeks or less and then I can fully get this mess going..

As far as LED experience, nope, I have none.. I ran 1 veg round last year with a “blurple” then I tossed them plants outside this year and they went crazy..

As far as HID’s go tho, I have been running HID’s for almost 17 years, it’s second nature with those lights..

I will take advice from those who follow along and know what’s going on with LED’s, if I’m not running them right I will be open ears to fix that problem..

Im not sure what else I can do to offset any variables..

Same room, same strains, started at the same time, same pot size, same pre mixed soil, same air exchange, same on everything except one will be under a HPS and right beside where it’s footprint ends, the LED footprint will start..

• This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by HippyFarmer420.

[Somatek]

Sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into it.  I’ve found there’s definitely a learning curve with LED’s, needing more CalMag was the first thing I noticed as I rarely have to use it.  Plants seem to stretch more but I’m thinking I probably just don’t have enough light saturation despite the light meter apps saying I have a good PPFD range.

I might suggest running the test a couple times until you get over the learning curve and are confident you’re running the LED’s as well as the HID’s as that’s the biggest/only real difference I see since you have so much experience with HPS.

I assume you’ll be using clones, taking more then needed and choosing the ones with equal root masses?  That was key to growing commercial SoG operations to equalize growth.  I was also wondering if you had considered washing the soil off the plants to measure/compare the root systems after harvest?  That’d be another interesting comparison as well as overall weight of the biomass (fan leaves, sugar leaves and stem, not just bud) to create a more complete picture of how the lights affect phenotypic expression.

[HippyFarmer420]

The one advantage the HID will have will be me not knowing what % to run the LED at and what type of distance the light needs to be from the plant with the LED..

Once I get those 2 things sorted it should be as close of a comparison as I can possibly do.

Im sure with all the info out about light spacing and dial control, Ill be able to sort that out, I am good at following directions 🙂

[Somatek]

If you can find a PPFD calculator to accurately convert the HPS and LED (accounting for spectrum as specifically as possible) then you can eliminate that variable.  Unless of course you have a couple hundred/grand to blow on a PAR meter lol.  Realistically it’s more practical to run the test a couple times and figure out the kinks and then start making opinions based off grows where you feel you understand that variable and have mitigated it.

[HippyFarmer420]

You more less read my mind and what I was kind of thinking,.

This log could be open for a while until we finally see if a sf4000 can stack up to a 600w hps..

Im sure the SF4000 has a few runs in her to do this test, and well my old trusty 600w hps Ive had for almost 17 years, she’s been pretty reliable.

 

“Bulb changes in between those years of running of course”.

So Ill start the first run, we will log it, see the results, see where I fucked up with the led’s and then adjust those mistakes and do another round..

I am doing this log more for my own personal reasons “I want to prove to my wife that it will be worth the price to switch from HID’s over to LED’s”,

She is very budget heavy and still pissed off at me that I spent all our vacation money “over 3k” on dirt and various composts”, now that I’m expanding my garden to full indoor growing, Im trying to talk her into letting me toss all these HID’s and go nothing but LED..

But of course my ole ball and chain loves to pinch pennies and thinks there is no point in switching my grow lights from HID’s “we can buy bulbs for 40-50 buxs” to LED lights that go up into the 1k range..

I’m trying to show her that I can get the same results “if not better” with smaller lights and less hydro in the end.

If I can successfully pull this off and show her that these sf4000’s and other lights of its caliber will do a better job and pull less power then my 600-1k watt hid’s, she will maybe see the savings difference in the hydro “which is insanely expensive”, and give me the green light to get more of them.

[HippyFarmer420]

On a side note:

I sent my wife to the hydro shop to pick me up some 2lb grove bags..

Well they charged her double the price, I did not know this until late last night after I took a break from trimming.

 

I called them today to find out wtf this is all about and why I was charged 27 dollars for 1 2lb grove bag..

 

Come to find out the hydro shop was getting fisted by his distributor, I guess after I called he got into it with them about this and they are sending him a rebate cheque for the difference they have been screwing him.

So long story short, the hydro shop owner is giving me full credit for my order “100 bux” and as a thank you gesture for pointing out his distributor was feking him, he is giving me another 100.00 credit as well, and I get to keep the grove bags..

So that’s a win right there, Ill be able to get a few more supplies for this run 🙂

[Somatek]

That’s definitely a win right there and also a solid shop, hopefully that makes the wife happy being so budget conscious.  Congrats dude

[HippyFarmer420]

She was very happy to see that after 16 years of marriage I still stood up for her..

I was pissed at first because I felt that the hydro shop took advantage of her not knowing anything about garden supplies, then I realized when I called them that it was a mishap on their distributing end.

Hydro shop was very thankful that I figured out they were getting screwed, I just saved and made him a bit of money and I think they are changing distributors after this.

[Somatek]

Biofloral was probably my favourite distributor back when I managed a hydro shop, although that’s over a decade ago so not worth much as an opinion lol.  It’s a pretty competitive business with some shady companies though, hope they find a good one.

[HippyFarmer420]

This plant did not get the memo that she is in Canada in the middle of October and not Hawaii.

Future tip to myself.. NEVER RUN DIRTY DANCING OUTDOORS AGAIN!

Pray she makes it up here in the arctic!

• This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by HippyFarmer420.

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[HippyFarmer420]

Why are my pics upside down and sometimes sideways.. wtf

[HippyFarmer420]

Still drying, I had to turn my grow room into an emergency dry room “I ended up with too much outdoor this year”.

I also have HVAC people coming in next week, I am adding a new central heat and air unit to the rooms this year..

I am looking at a mini split system so I can fully control the grow rooms, I will know more on this next week..

In the mean time it’s back to trim prison we go..  I can’t wait to have all this done!

[Atom]

I can definitely understand trimming big plants like that. I helped a friend take down a massive garden once,plants were probably half as big as yours but there was 20 of them. We trimmed for 3 weeks 6 days a week and he still had more to go but I had enough lol. I hate trimming

[HippyFarmer420]

Ive been trimming for going on 2 weeks and still haven’t made a dint..

Im starting to question if I need all this, thoughts are telling me to just toss it so I can get my indoor going..

But it’s a bit hard to justify throwing out lbs of herb cause I don’t feel like trimming it, but I have more then I can physically smoke and I just want my indoor back up again, I enjoy growing WAY more then this trimming shit.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by HippyFarmer420.

[Atom]

O man I’m with you there. I don’t have as large of garden as my friend did but it’s still alot to trim. I eventually bought a nice bowl trimmer from risentek and did that for two years. This year just made hash. I’ll never look back after seeing the results. This will be the norm for me from here on out.

[HippyFarmer420]

90%+ of this is going to extract, we will be making rosin and bubble hash soon.

[Atom]

Right on man. Be sure and show us how you do. I love talking and seeing how other hash makers do it especially rosin

[HippyFarmer420]

Yeah I enjoy making rosin..

We have a 10 ton press with 3x7inch dab press plates.. it’s good to press 1/2 oz runs, I wish we would have went bigger but the 10 ton setup was already pricey.

[M]

I am very much interested to see this grow.  I am grabbing a sit with you guys!!!

Happy growing!

[Author]

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